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Report 1505
Report #1505 Skillset: Moon Skill: Succumb Org: Moondancers Status: Completed Jul 2016 Furies' Decision: Solution 1 (tweak numbers). Problem: Succumb is currently the only way in which a Moondancer can drain mana (other than passive Banshee attacks). Currently Succumb is still easily cured as it still runs on a pre-overhaul cure of Reshi. With the removal of forceable metawake rendering sleeplocks a thing of the past this report looks to move Succumb forward and make it a viable method for draining mana in 1v1 and also group combat. This report also looks at removing waning as an aeon ability 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Make succumb a 3p ability with 3s eq cost that lasts for 10s, ticking on-cast and once every 3s thereafter (total of 4 ticks). The drain should be a flat drain of 750, scaling to mental afflictions in the following manner: 1-3 mental affs on target, +750 per mental aff, 4 or more mental affs on the target, +1500 per mental aff (for each of the 4 or more affs, not just the 4th onwards). Upon being hit by a mental affliction while under the effects of succumb, it deals a flat 500 mana damage. Make wane a no-power ability with a 0.5s eq cost. On cast, deals 1500 mana damage and a tick of succumb's effect. Also removes succumb and cures the target of all mental affs. Does nothing when cast on a target not under succumb's effect. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: In addition to solution 1, have a succumb tick on a target (whether it be ticking from succumb, or triggered by a wane cast) with 4 or more mental affs also do a 1s stun. 0 R: 0 Solution #3: In addition to solution 1, have a target under succumb have a 2s movement delay that stacks with other sources of movement delay. Player Comments: ---on 7/12 @ 15:25 writes: Okay removed the old report and have reworked it with the help of Lerad hopefully making the report more meritable. Lerads notes can be found in this link https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/3g5hjq1qrbryd65/succumb%20report.txt?dl=0 ---on 7/12 @ 15:28 writes: This looks interesting and innovative. I support it. ---on 7/12 @ 15:40 writes: As a note, Ryboi approached me to help with the report around a week ago. I have been busy the past week, and haven't logged on much, so I've procrastinated a bit. But I managed to cobble together something based largely off Azula's forums suggestion. I've never been an MD or a wiccan, so the numbers could do with some work. But I feel waiting to see it in action is definitely a possibility, since I think the concepts that Azula used in her suggestion are fairly solid. The previous comments on the report definitely brought up some important points, but since my suggestion does change up the solutions quite a bit, perhaps it might not be too bad an idea to start on a fresh comment slate. ---on 7/12 @ 21:55 writes: So are we removing aeon from wane altogether? Sol 2 and 3 are too much. You're already doing 6750 mana drain at a minimum (which wil be >50% for literally everyone in the game considering the max mana pool anyone can have is 12420). I don't know that I'd add the wane effect at the moment, I'd just change succumb and see how that goes though. ---on 7/13 @ 00:38 writes: Yes, removing aeon from wane was part of Azula's suggestion, and given my biases, also the part I'm the most enthusiastic about. Aside from my obvious desire to change wane in itself, I do think that it's an important aspect of a burst class to be able to dictate when to go for the finisher instead of having to wait for the tick - the give-and-take would be the full offense reset of using the suggested wane effect: it would effectively make it waste the entire offensive effort if they used it improperly. That will put most of the burden on the MD to use the active effect. Another way to achieve this is to make the wane effect stronger and the passive ticks weaker - but that's more coding effort. If the coding resources are available, or after implementation, we decide the passive pressure is too high, we can always tweak it that way - so as to increase the burden to be on the user's active decision making rather than just waiting for succumb to do the work. The execution threshold is just that, the point of (pretty much) guarantee'd death. Obviously, we'll want to tweak the threshold up (or even shorten the window) if it's too easy to achieve. ---on 7/14 @ 02:30 writes: I can work with this overall idea but I think most of the numbers need to be adjusted. I think the active mana drain on wane is too much for such a small eq cost. The drain is so high that without using any mental affs at all you could cast succumb and then wane someone to death immediately unless I'm misreading something. My preference would be for succumb to have a higher eq cost (like 1-2s) and have its primary benefit be delivering the succumb tick rather than the base damage. I think it would be wise to incorporate a % of max mana portion in nearly all of these numbers otherwise MDs will be able to assassinate lower level folks and not do as well against arti'd demis. ---on 7/14 @ 16:15 writes: If the wane implement of this report goes ahead it would be that once a single wane is cast on the target it would remove succumb and cure all mental afflictions on the target meting spammable wane would not be possible. With regards to the drain it can ether by implements are base drains or a % of the overall mana. I'm not too fussed ether way in honesty as long as it works and is viable. If people feel the wane is too much of an adjustment we can remove the part of the report and see how the succumb works out and address the Wane at a later date ---on 7/14 @ 21:17 writes: Did some quick math. Sipping mana restores ~16.5% mana on average. Sparkleberry 10%, healing scroll 5% minimum, scaling up the higher the current mana. So an MD must either burst to 18.5% mana if all are used immediately, burst to 50% + hinder mana restoration, or drain more than 64.16% mana every 10s to outpace the restoration. ---on 7/14 @ 21:17 writes: Potential tactic: (Beast spit + whammy + Crone tic + Dark tic) -> Succumb -> Succumb tic + Wane -> Toad. On the first succumb, there would be 4 mental afflictions on the target, assuming good rng, resulting in 6750 mana drain. If the target has 10,800 mana (easily achievable for a caster), then they will restore about 3400, leaving them at ~7450 (69%). 3s later, they will have cured two more mental afflictions, Succumb will tic for 2250 drain, leaving them at 48% mana, give or take a few percent (so they might be above 50%). Wane can then be used to drain an additional 3750 mana, leaving them at ~13.5% mana. .5s later, the MD can toad if they have properly timed things so they've regained one power. ---on 7/14 @ 21:17 writes: So based on that, it definitely seems pretty strong. That tactic only makes use of one tic of Succumb, and doesn't make use of the drain on applying a mental affliction. The weakness is that you could accidentally stack the same mental affliction, they could resist being afflicted, especially the poison, and they can hinder, shield or run. ---on 7/14 @ 21:22 writes: This can get even crazier in groups, of course. I think it might be wise to lower the drains, and add a bit of hindering either in Succumb (like Solution 2, but for all tics no matter what), or elsewhere in Moon. Also probably should add a way to actively give mental afflictions for non-Hexen MDs. ---on 7/16 @ 00:45 writes: All good points. Tweaking the numbers to be lower may be an idea - we can always tweak them back up. I'll defer to those who actually have wiccan/guardian experience in the numbers. For the point about adding hinder to succumb, a stun on all succumb ticks regardless of the target's status is definitely not a good idea. Stuns will have to be walled behind a threshold, otherwise, it'll be too overbearing. Regarding the concern about the burst tactic Shedrin mentioned, perhaps the follow up report on Dark/Crone can turn them from passive to active - giving non hexen MDs a way to give mental affs actively as well as reducing the potential for zero-affs -> four-affs -> threshold-succumb just by the virtue of timing passives. The concept that an MD needs to pressure vitals, pressure curing balances and actually work to build the affs first before reaping the benefits of succumb is one I can support. A temporary solution can be to raise the threshold to 5, and in the same report as the followup on Dark/Crone, drop it back to 4, something like that. ---on 7/19 @ 12:22 writes: Ok, I made a mistake and my math above is incorrect. I forgot to account for the fact that slush balance is 1s now over 1.5. For the combo above I posted, it still leads to a kill with the target having ~34% mana. This does make it more inconsistent, though, and lowers the power of other combos.